Route 139 Project

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Route 139 Project

Postby lls0514 » Jun Wed 06, 2012 3:15 pm

Just drove down 139 an hour ago to pick up my daughter from the HS and I noticed that they are paving the side of the road that they are widening -- now here's my question: WHY are they paving AROUND the telephone poles? Aren't they going to have to move them (one would hope anyway) and when they do move them won't they have to rip up the pavement they just put down and then put more down again> ?? anyone ......

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby hgbv » Jun Wed 06, 2012 3:42 pm

It is most likely a base coat. The poles will be there for at least a year or more as with most road projects.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby Lifetime » Jun Wed 06, 2012 5:36 pm

The poles should have been moved and the the old poles removed prior to the start of the Road Construction. The way Mass Highway is doing this job, There will be problems in the future with the road base where the old poles exist today after they are removed. This is just another reason why Massachusetts Road are in the condition, they are in.
Poor Planning, Poor Construction Management, Poor Construction Principles = Poor Road Conditions

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby choudahead » Jun Wed 06, 2012 6:01 pm

I guess that means they are not running the electrical and telephone lines under ground. If they dont, that is short sighted. why didnt the zba, building dept, highway dept exc or any one else who could make that happen make the effort. It would make that stretch of rd that much better looking.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby pat » Jun Wed 06, 2012 6:26 pm

Running the utility lines underground is far more expensive - to do and to maintain, and have you ever heard of any additional expense that doesn't make its way down to us?

So if you want to chastise them for not putting the power underground, I just want to know that you're totally ok with footing the bill for the cost.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby hgbv » Jun Wed 06, 2012 6:34 pm

The building department, DPW, and ZBA have nothing to do with this project. It is the Mass Highway , the town of Marshfield has no input here. I have no idea how to build a road so I will wait and see how things go.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby Max » Jun Wed 06, 2012 7:03 pm

Mass Highway does indeed run the project, but Marshfield agencies had input into the process. See earlier threads on this.

I hope you are not with DPW because they were supposedly involved in the project early on.
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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby TimeToRetire » Jun Wed 06, 2012 9:45 pm

pat wrote:...have you ever heard of any additional expense that doesn't make its way down to us?

Amen bro....

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby BOB CHEESEMAN » Jun Wed 06, 2012 10:28 pm

hgbv wrote:The building department, DPW, and ZBA have nothing to do with this project. It is the Mass Highway , the town of Marshfield has no input here. I have no idea how to build a road so I will wait and see how things go.


There was public meeting on the Rte.139 project and it was open to the public put on by the Planning Board and as a citzen of the town I went to the meeting at the Furance Brook School.

I think it going ahead of the time frame that they set for the work being done also I see a lot safety put in place and Landers and that grew are doing a first class job.

The work is not finished and its already out dated and should of went down to Main Street (Rte. 3A) then over to the train at the Greenbush Station.
State should fund the Towns Housing Authority for Affordable Housing, they already have the powers of state laws (M.G.L. C-121B)

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby lost cause » Jun Thu 07, 2012 4:47 am

BOB CHEESEMAN wrote:
The work is not finished and its already out dated and should of went down to Main Street (Rte. 3A) then over to the train at the Greenbush Station.


And exactly how much money would that have cost, never mind the fact that 3A does not need to be widened at all.
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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby choudahead » Jun Thu 07, 2012 9:47 am

pat wrote:Running the utility lines underground is far more expensive - to do and to maintain, and have you ever heard of any additional expense that doesn't make its way down to us?

So if you want to chastise them for not putting the power underground, I just want to know that you're totally ok with footing the bill for the cost.


I am suprised that it is not included in the cost of the project.
Utility poles are out dated it is 130 year old technology that is being replaced in other communites. Power lines underground can be accesed via manholes for large junctions, small er maintenance locations are accessed by smaller capped access points. Cameras are used to inspect all sealed tubes for maintenance, new wires are pulled via machinary the companies already own. All customers are serviced by small access towers and all lines are run underground to the buildings they service or to service poles with power drops to the buildings. Any new buildings would have all their power supplied from underground.
Yes it may be more money at the outset, but the cost savings in tree maintenance in the future should be weighed against this cost. Just think of it, no more power outages from storms,
And yes pat, I would be more than happy to pitch in my share of the cost do do this work, whats a couple of million dollars here or there, As a Marshfield taxpayer I line my cat box with Ben Franklin. Check out the new high school plans, I threw more money in the kitty for that elephant.
I think most citizens of the community would prefer not to echo the aesthetics of Revere, and Saugus. Replacing utility poles with underground utilities would promote a more New Englandy look to our main drag at relatively low cost. Have you seen the tree butchery on 3A heading north by Canoe tree street? If it werent for the telephone poles some of those palm trees would look like pine trees. There may even be a canopy of trees over the street, but no, I am sure it looks fine to you.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby HokieAl » Jun Thu 07, 2012 1:00 pm

pat wrote:Running the utility lines underground is far more expensive - to do and to maintain, and have you ever heard of any additional expense that doesn't make its way down to us?


They buried a bunch of pipes, why not the wires too. How expensive could it be? Then you wouldn't be moving poles, just getting rid of them. New neighborhoods always have buried wires.

Also, why did they choose to widen the side with all the poles? They could have left them alone if the widened on the side without the poles.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby BOB CHEESEMAN » Jun Thu 07, 2012 3:37 pm

lost cause wrote:
BOB CHEESEMAN wrote:
The work is not finished and its already out dated and should of went down to Main Street (Rte. 3A) then over to the train at the Greenbush Station.


And exactly how much money would that have cost, never mind the fact that 3A does not need to be widened at all.


lost cause

It's all our tax dollars the State would have to tell you the cost, but 3A does need to be windened because of the Train in Greenbush to Boston.

People coming through Marshfield from Duxbury, Pembroke, Hanover, two lanes each way would be some real good planning and not for 50 years but for a 100 years, wow and don't forget the Power Plant in Pymouth so people can get out of town.
State should fund the Towns Housing Authority for Affordable Housing, they already have the powers of state laws (M.G.L. C-121B)



Keep all town land as open space of the town.



Handy House - that property should remain as OPEN SPACE of the Town.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby pat » Jun Thu 07, 2012 4:56 pm

choudahead wrote:Replacing utility poles with underground utilities would promote a more New Englandy look to our main drag at relatively low cost.

Really? Removing the power lines that have been there since long before any of us is what's going to make that stretch of strip malls, liquor stores and fast food joints "New Englandy"?

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby choudahead » Jun Thu 07, 2012 7:09 pm

pat wrote:
choudahead wrote:Replacing utility poles with underground utilities would promote a more New Englandy look to our main drag at relatively low cost.

Really? Removing the power lines that have been there since long before any of us is what's going to make that stretch of strip malls, liquor stores and fast food joints "New Englandy"?


first off I have to say ......really Pat? this is your argument? really? Seriously?

Mature trees hanging over the roadway might help and would be a good place to start. Look at some old pictures of marshfield, I will lend you the book if you need a refresher.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby pat » Jun Thu 07, 2012 8:45 pm

Sure - as long as you don't mind coming up with the couple million dollars it'll cost. You're obviously doing a lot better than I am. From my point of view, I'd rather put the money to better use.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby Prov12 » Jun Fri 08, 2012 11:58 am

I have not confirmed this but I did hear the poles are owned by Verizon and they (Verizon) are the ones who have not moved them. The person who I was speaking with told me they will not be moved for a while.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby choudahead » Jul Mon 02, 2012 9:24 am

I thought the following article from today's cnn front page, was timely and related, I posted the whole article saving readers the hassle of following a link.

Editor's note: David Frum is a contributing editor at Newsweek and The Daily Beast and a CNN contributor. He is the author of seven books, including a new novel, "Patriots."

(CNN) -- Congratulations: If you're reading this, you have electricity. Unfortunately, more than 3 million Americans this weekend couldn't join you. The sweltering heat wave that roasted the eastern United States was accompanied by terrible storms that have knocked out power lines up and down the seaboard.

While you enjoy your air conditioning, you might want to take a minute to consider: Why do Americans tolerate such outages?

Outages are not inevitable. The German power grid has outages at an average rate of 21 minutes per year.

The winds may howl. The trees may fall. But in Germany, the lights stay on.

There's no Teutonic engineering magic to this impressive record. It's achieved by a very simple decision: Germany buries almost all of its low-voltage and medium-voltage power lines, the lines that serve individual homes and apartments. Americans could do the same. They have chosen not to.

The choice has been made for reasons of cost. The industry rule of thumb is that it costs about 10 times as much to bury wire as to string wire overhead: up to $1 million per mile, industry representatives claim. Since American cities are much less dense than European ones, there would be a lot more wire to string to serve a U.S. population than a European one.
Cost matters.
But now reflect:
1. There's reason to think that industry estimates of the cost of burying wires are inflated. While the U.S. industry guesstimates costs, a large-scale study of the problem conducted recently in the United Kingdom estimated the cost premium at 4.5 to 5.5 times the cost of overhead wire, not 10.
2. U.S. cost figures are a moving target. American cities are becoming denser as the baby boomers age and opt for central-city living, as I discussed in a previous column. Denser cities require fewer miles of wire to serve their populations.
3. Costs can only be understood in relation to benefits. As the climate warms, storms and power outages are becoming more common. And as the population ages, power failures become more dangerous. In France, where air conditioning is uncommon, a 2003 heat wave left 10,000 people dead, almost all of them elderly. If burying power lines prevented power outages during the hotter summers ahead, the decision could save many lives.

4. As you may have heard, we're suffering very severe unemployment just at present. Joblessness is acute among less educated workers, many of whom used to work in the now severely depressed construction industry. Burying power lines is a project that could put many hundreds of thousands of the unemployed to work at tasks that make use of their skills and experience.

Meanwhile, the federal government is able to borrow vast sums of money at the lowest interest rates since the Great Depression. The Obama stimulus has to date failed to produce many projects of lasting benefit to the country. But here's one that our children and grandchildren would appreciate -- and that might save our parents' lives.

Follow @CNNOpinion on Twitter.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby MarshRez » Jul Sat 07, 2012 10:34 am

Interesting points on both sides of some important issues here.

Getting back to Rte 139 widening project, looks like they're making good progress. But what we have is a new, almost ready to go road....with telephone poles in the right lane.

Is there still no definitive reason for this..and why they built a new road AROUND the poles before removing the poles?
I'm no expert on road construction but this just seems kind of silly. Wondering why they didn't relocate the poles 1 by 1 to their NEW locations before any work on the widening project began.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby lost cause » Jul Sat 07, 2012 11:44 am

BOB CHEESEMAN wrote:lost cause

It's all our tax dollars the State would have to tell you the cost, but 3A does need to be windened because of the Train in Greenbush to Boston.

People coming through Marshfield from Duxbury, Pembroke, Hanover, two lanes each way would be some real good planning and not for 50 years but for a 100 years, wow and don't forget the Power Plant in Pymouth so people can get out of town.


You do not have the parking or the train frequency, nor will you. Exactly how much land are you going to take from people for this idiotic idea of a project? How many decades would this type of boondoggle project even take? It doesn't need to be widen and it never will. All widening of the road would do is create a demand for more housing which we do not need.
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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby choudahead » Sep Sun 02, 2012 11:44 am

does anyone know what the cost is for the 139 road widening project? ........I mean the total project cost in dollars. thanks

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby hairman » Sep Sun 02, 2012 3:14 pm

For what they had to do and how to do it,i give them all an A+.I am up and down on that road a couple of times a day,and for the most part,I never waited that long.....

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby bobkat » Sep Sun 02, 2012 6:10 pm

choudahead wrote:does anyone know what the cost is for the 139 road widening project? ........I mean the total project cost in dollars. thanks



choudahead I agree with hairman and we are getting a pretty good bang for the buck. The only problem is Verizon . They are holding up the project.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby choudahead » Sep Mon 03, 2012 9:14 am

I am just asking if anyone knows what the total cost is. That is all. I am not looking to justify it for one reason or another. i just want to know what the projected total cost is.
for the record this was a project a long time coming, desperately needed, and yes so far looks great.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby Bridges » Sep Mon 03, 2012 10:09 am

I have to agree. I think they've done a good job so far (though as others have mentioned, I don't understand the logic of paving around telephone poles, that you'll just have to rip up when you remove the poles).

And yes - this was a LONG overdue project.
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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby bobkat » Sep Mon 03, 2012 11:18 am

Bridges wrote: I don't understand the logic of paving around telephone poles, that you'll just have to rip up when you remove the poles).

And yes - this was a LONG overdue project.



Bridges there is no ripping up any thing. The poles are only 5 to 6 feet in the ground. They the poles pull right out. The paving that has been done is only a base coat. Once the new poles are put in place by Verizon. The other utilities will transfer their lines . The old poles will be cut in sections. Leaving about 10 ft above the ground and then they a pulled out.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby Bridges » Sep Mon 03, 2012 11:43 am

OK, sounds good to me. Others have already asked about this, but I did not see an answer. That sounds logical. I thought they'd have to do more ripping up of pavement to get the poles out.

Yes - it's clear by even a casual glance that it's just the base layer of pavement...
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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby BOB CHEESEMAN » Sep Wed 05, 2012 12:15 pm

I believe the Route 139 project cost is 4.17 M

To bad the poles are holding up the project.
State should fund the Towns Housing Authority for Affordable Housing, they already have the powers of state laws (M.G.L. C-121B)



Keep all town land as open space of the town.



Handy House - that property should remain as OPEN SPACE of the Town.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby choudahead » Sep Wed 05, 2012 1:00 pm

BOB CHEESEMAN wrote:I believe the Route 139 project cost is 4.17 M

To bad the poles are holding up the project.

are they holding up the project?
are you sure about the 4.17m number? where did it come from? thanks

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby Carson » Sep Wed 05, 2012 1:36 pm


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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby choudahead » Sep Wed 05, 2012 2:35 pm

so it was budgeted at $5.8 mil and is scoming in at $4.17mil is that true?

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby tmgreenharbor » Sep Wed 05, 2012 2:59 pm


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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby DTI » Sep Wed 05, 2012 3:04 pm

choudahead wrote:so it was budgeted at $5.8 mil and is scoming in at $4.17mil is that true?

MARSHFIELD-PEMBROKE - CORRIDOR IMPROVEMENTS ON ROUTE 139 (PLAIN STREET)
The project includes infrastructure improvements on Route 139 between the School Street and Furnace Street intersection approaches, a distance of approximately 4975 feet. The existing roadway section within the project includes one travel lane in each direction whereas the roadway sections at each end of the project include two travel lanes in each direction. Traffic bottlenecks occur where the two travel lanes on the approaches to the project merge to one. The project includes construction of two 12-foot travel lanes in each direction and two 6-foot shoulders, with 6-foot wide sidewalks on each side, resulting in a total proposed roadway section of 72 feet. Route 139 within the project is significantly developed, with commercial retail development as the predominant land use. Because the existing 65-foot wide right of way is insufficient for the proposed roadway section of 72 feet, all adjacent properties are impacted by the project. Impacts include loss of real estate, frontage landscaping, fence relocations or removal, parking, proprietary sign relocations or redesign, detention basin and proprietary drainage system relocation or redesign, and driveway reconstruction.
Location: Town of Marshfield
Town of Pembroke

Construction Begins: Winter 2011/2012
Construction Ends: Summer 2014
Resident Engineer: Ronald Strangfeld
Construction Contract Value: $4,689,507.00
Construction Bid Price: $4,139,139.74
Initial Construction Estimate: $5,149,128.00
MassHighway District: District 5
Current Status: Drainage installation along Rte 139 will continue thoughout the week. Partial lane closures may be in effect. Sidewalks along the Easstbound side of Rte 139 are ready to be installed the week of August 31, 2012. Normal work hours are Monday thru Friday, 7:00 AM to 3:30 PM. Expect periodic lane closures and restrictions. (as of 08/21/2012)

Contracts (5) Progress
# 51303 -- Design -- Hwy Eng Open End
Statewide - work will consist of providing engineering design and review services to the MassHighway on an open end basis for various statewide highway and bridge projects. Final
# 57726 -- Design -- Hwy Eng Open End
Work will consist of providing engineering design and review services to MassHighway on an open end basis for various highway and bridge projects. Final
# 57915 -- Design -- Services
Work will consist of providing engineering design services to the MassHighway on an open end basis for Layout and Right of Way assignments. Final
# 64321 -- Design -- Hwy Eng Open End
Work will consist of providing engineering design and review services to MassDOT on a task order basis for various statewide highway and bridge projects. Final
# 71100 -- Construction Contract
Roadway Reconstruction and Related Work on a Section of Route 139 (Plain Street). 35% Complete
Bridges
- none -

Construction ProgressMilestone DetailsTIP/FundingProject Issues
Contract Dates
Notice to Proceed: 01/04/2012
Contract Information
Project Designer: Municipality
Funding Source: Surface Trans. Program

http://www.mhd.state.ma.us/default.asp?pgid=content/projectsRoot&sid=wrapper&iid=http://www.mhd.state.ma.us//ProjectInfo/
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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby Boodab » Sep Thu 06, 2012 12:11 pm

Not sure why they wouldnt be putting a 12' center turning lane in like they did in Hanover for the RTE 53 project instead of 2 - 6ft shoulders on each side. Without that turning lane isnt the traffic in the middle travel lanes going to stop traffic in those lanes while waiting to turn? For that matter 139 has a turning lane from the highway in Pembroke to Green Automotive. :-?
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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby HokieAl » Sep Thu 06, 2012 2:00 pm

As the sidewalk is now in place (at least part of it is), it looks to me like they've added enough space for one more lane. Is 139 going to be 2 lanes in one direction and 1 lane in the other? Or are we going to be "threadin the needle" every time we drive in that new section?

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby choudahead » Sep Thu 06, 2012 7:57 pm

2 lanes each way, i spoke to Rocco today, the second half of the project will be done next year. part of the problem with the telephone poles is getting the utilities together to move their services. Another problem is some property owners do not want guy wires into the ground on their property. The right of way established on private property is only for the poles.
also traffic will be much easier to pull into and get out of because there will be a light at enterprise drive I think.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby dlb » Sep Tue 11, 2012 10:52 am

This is an obstacle course set up by the State to test everyone's ability to have a driving license;
if you hit a pole - you lose your license. If you dont, you get renewed without question another few years.
<grin> I haven't hit one yet! Oops, should not speak too soon.... :razz:
Remember you cannot go back and change the past, but you can start today to make changes to make a difference in your future. Love you all, Donna

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby BOB CHEESEMAN » Sep Tue 11, 2012 9:25 pm

I believe Acorn St. from Moraine St.at the Duxbury line to the round about in Duxbury by route 3 was started about the same time as route 139. Street was dug up new poles moved and wires were installed job complete.
State should fund the Towns Housing Authority for Affordable Housing, they already have the powers of state laws (M.G.L. C-121B)



Keep all town land as open space of the town.



Handy House - that property should remain as OPEN SPACE of the Town.

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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby GoingCoastal » Sep Tue 18, 2012 6:47 am

This morning:

The Massachusetts Secretary of Transportation, Richard A. Davey, will be in Marshfield this week, Tuesday, September 18, at the Marshfield Tavern at 9 a.m.. Come join members of the Chamber and Rep. Jim Cantwell as the Secretary speaks about the Route 139 project and other initiatives. More information is available on our website:

http://marshfieldchamberofcommerce.com/
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Re: Route 139 Project

Postby lls0514 » Sep Fri 21, 2012 10:38 pm

we will be hosting the Secretary from the Department of Transportation to discuss the timeline of the Route 139 expansion project in collaboration with Representative Jim Cantwell.

Tuesday, September 18th

9:00AM

Marshfield Tavern

Cost is $10.00 for Chamber members and $15.00 for non-members.


so let me see if I have this right ... now you have to PAY to talk to an elected official?????/ is that correct -- maybe (hopefully) I am just reading this wrong right?? and how was the meeting


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